#12 - A CHAT WITH FILM RE-RECORDING ENGINEER, ANUJ MATHUR!

I've always been writing about Production Sound Mixing. So this time, I thought, I will chat with my friend Anuj Mathur, who is a very sought after Film Re-Recording Engineer at YRF Studios, and get him to talk about Film Mixing.

Hi Anuj, tell us a bit about yourself - your background, your training and your journey into Re-Recording for films.

I graduated from FTII in 1987, and started my career with the movie Chandni, (a Yash Chopra film) as an Assistant to Vasant Mudliar, who was the sound designer. Due to his ill health, he later on handed over the baton to me. Since then, I've been doing most of the Yash Raj Films as a Sound designer.

In 2003-04, the thought of a studio model for Yash Raj came in. Though Yash ji had been asking me for a recording studio since the time of Lamhe (1993-94), I always used to submit a proposal to him saying it's not a viable proposition. And he used to get upset. 

Basically he wanted a state-of-the art studio only for himself. He was very fond of using the latest equipment. And he used to produce and direct a film over a period of one and a half to two years. Now setting up a studio exclusively for him would not have been financially viable! 

But sometime in 2002-03, Aditya Chopra decided to realise Yash ji's dream to set up the studio with multiple shooting stages, multiple recording studios (for Background Score/Songs, ADR, Sound edit/design, Foley and Film Re-recording) and the corporate office. We then started developing the idea further and got in Mr. Daman Sood as the technical consultant. The whole facility was planned keeping in mind that it would not only be used for in-house projects, but would also be available to outsiders to use. Finally in Oct 2005, the studios had their grand opening. 

Now while the studio work was going on, I used to be on the outdoor locations with Yash ji’s unit. And over the weekends, I would come back to Mumbai to keep a check on the progress of the studios. I was involved with everything… selecting the equipment for all the audio studios, the acoustics for all the studios, the equipment for all the edit rooms, everything. This went on for quite some time.

Finally, Aditya Chopra offered me to join the studios as their Chief Recordist and Re-recording Mixer. So here I am, and the rest is history.  

How do you prepare for a film mix? Please take us through a step by step process, right from the time the project comes to you.

When a Producer / Director comes to me saying he wants me to Mix his film, my first step is to see the final locked edit of the film. 

Of course, at this stage, the final edit is never really the final edit, because fine tuning of the edit goes on till the very end, sometimes even after the final Mix is completed. 

So I go and watch the film in the edit room. I normally have the Sound Designer with me during this screening.

Whilst listening to the tracks, I can come to know how much of the sync sound track will be usable and what scenes will need to be dubbed. But basically, that is taken care of by the Sound Designer of the movie. I make my notes and request the Sound Designer to minimise the cleaning, so that we don't lose the tone of the dialogues. 

Then I discuss with the Director and Sound Designer what kind of a sound structure they are looking at. 

Once the material starts coming to me, (in the form of ProTools sessions), my next step is to start work on the Premix of Dialogues, Music and Effects. 

I always prefer to start off with the Dialogue Premix. One thing I am very clear about is that I do not accept any premixed tracks. I prefer to premix myself, so that I know each and every layer of dialogue which has gone into the film. During the Dialogue Premix, I make my notes regarding what dialogues I feel are not intelligible, and we try at our end to remove noise etc… using Izotope Rx and other plugins. I prefer to have my dialogue tracks absolutely clean, irrespective of whether Music is going to camouflage the dialogue track or not. The tracks have to be clean, so that whatever level we are playing Dialogues in the final Mix, there are no disturbing elements and it is clear. And if I feel that a scene can be improved upon by dubbing, then I request the Sound Designer to get it dubbed. 

Ideally, after the Dialogue Premix, I would like to do the Music Premix, but that rarely happens as the Music is never ready at that time. 

So I start to work on the Premix of the Effects tracks. When it comes to Premix of Effects, a lot of layers of sound effects are never audible with the kind of background music we use. Most of the Bollywood films are musically very heavy. So it is pointless to let these layers be in your tracks if they cannot be heard. So during my Effects Premix, I prefer to clean all those elements out that are not being heard. If they are not being heard, they are not required in the track. 

Once the Music tracks are ready (songs and background score), I start working on them. For songs, I call for 24 to 30 Stereo tracks of different elements of the song, like rhythm, strings, solo instruments, vocals, chorus and backing vocals etc… 

The engineers who have recorded the songs know their tracks better. We give them the breakdown, as to what kind of premixes we need. We need at least 6 to 8 Stereo tracks of rhythm section, all the voices and their processing separate, and other musical instruments, so that we can try and use their processing, the way they have designed it. And after that, if you need more processing, you add your layer, but go by their thought because they have recorded the song with the music director. We prefer to have the strings, the guitars etc as separate stereo tracks so that we can place them into different positions in the room, (in my 5.1 and Atmos mix). For example, Rhythm is kept mostly in the front. Also, whichever musical instruments have longer holding notes are more in the room, but anything with a fast rhythmic piece will be in the front. We work towards getting an engulfing feel of the score. 

The Premix of the Music and BG score is done with reference to the Dialogue Premix. I prefer to equalise the music elements, rather than bringing down the levels of the Music, to make the Dialogues more intelligible. 

Once the songs & background score is premixed, the music director is called in to check if his concept has been translated well.

Once I go into the final Mix, I take a call on whether I need effects here, or music here in the scene, and along with the Director and the Sound Designer, we come to a Mix that is best for the film. For example, if music is heavy, then whatever effects are not being heard will be muted completely, no unnecessary sounds have to be on the tracks. 

Do you calibrate your speakers before every mix? 

Yes, before every project, we get the theatre calibrated by the Dolby engineer, as this also works as our audio QC room before the end product is finally outputted. The Mumbai cinema technician and directors also rely on the audio quality of this room for their final DCP output. Plus, the Who’s Who of the Industry also have their Previews here, so it is very important for us to maintain this Mix room to the highest technical standards, at all times. 

What is the hardware / software that you currently have in your film mix studio?

Mostly, all the DAW’s are ProTools, which is the normal standard now in every studio. It also helps us in compatibility with sessions that come to us from different studios. 

We started with two ProTools systems in 2005 and an AMS Neve DFC II console. Till date, I would say it is the best console which I have used. We used it for more than ten years, but then came a stage when the spares were not available and it gave us some technical issues and it could not be serviced. 

We then switched over to Avid S6 M40. It is a control surface for ProTools and it has made life very convenient  for us. Even after the Mix is over, there are always edits or VFX updates happening. This has become very convenient as compared to editing automation on AMS Neve DFC II.

Also, any complex edit has become much easier and faster to tackle now, especially with software like Matchbox. Whenever a new edit version of a feature film comes to us, we use Matchbox to reconfirm all changes that need to be done in the audio, to match the changes in the picture edit.  It not only reads your change EDL, but can also read your audio files and accordingly make its own edit patterns. And before executing, it shows you that these are your edits. So once you have cross checked all your edits in the session, along with picture reference, you can then confirm the edits. And the precision with which Matchbox works is amazing….I will say 100%. 

Coming back to the current hardware in the studio, at present we have three ProTools machines in the Mix room, two for playing back all the tracks, and one dedicated recorder to record all the Stems. We have always followed international standards because most of the Yash Raj films are always required for overseas delivery with regards to language dubs. So we always followed multiple 5.1 stem recordings so that irrespective of whichever country it goes to, the tracks are all available for language dubs and different versions. We have two ProTools, one is for Dialogues and Music, and the second system is exclusively for Effects, because most of the sound effects sessions are very heavy. 

Earlier we used a lot of analogue outboard gear during the mix, like reverbs and compressors, but now with the S6, we have a fully digital chain, which effectively means, that from the moment dialogues and production Sound is captured on set, the audio files remain in the digital domain till the final mix and DCP is sent to theatres for screening. 

Nowadays, some films are specifically made just for an OTT release. Is the dynamic range of a film mix different from an OTT mix? 

The Dynamic range for OTT is slightly different from that of a Film Mix. The technical standards are different for OTT. Every platform has its own standards which one needs to follow. Mainly pertaining to Loudness levels. 

A film that is made specifically for an OTT release should ideally be mixed in a smaller room. But some Directors insist on mixing their OTT films here in this big mix room. Because they are more comfortable here. So I mix the film for them here in this big room keeping in mind, technical aspects of OTT, and once they are OK with the Mix, then I take all the stems to our smaller Mix room which is more suitable for OTT, monitor it there, bring it to the specifications of the OTT platform, and deliver the master as per the Loudness and technical specifications of the OTT Platform. 

Give me your take on dubbing? Is it required nowadays with sync sound being prevalent?

A sync sound track is definitely much better to use in the film mix. The artist has performed on set, under the guidance of the Director, along with co artists. So performance is always better in a sync sound track. 

But if I feel that dubbing a scene is going to help the movie, then I ask for it. Yes, performance of a dubbed track may not be as good as a sync sound track, but whatever helps the film, that should be done. 

Also, we resort to a lot of spot dubbing, where we actually replace only a word or two here and there to improve upon intelligibility, or to accommodate a change in dialogue, or to replace a word which has some disturbance. 

We ask the artist to dub the entire line, so as to get the correct pitch and performance. We match the Dubbed voice (using EQ) with the sync sound track and only punch in the word that needs to be replaced. 

At times, the entire scene (especially action scenes) are dubbed. But dubbed track or sync sound track; whatever helps the film, that should be used. 

What are some of your go to plug-in's and processors - compressors / limiters / equalisers / downward expanders? Do you use them a lot or sparingly?

Most of the time, plugins are used during the premix stage. 

In the Dialogue Premix, the master output has a set of compressors. And we use plugins for cleaning dialogues, like Izotope Rx. 

For Music premix, I use a lot of UAD plugins. 

In the final Mix, I prefer not to use plugins.  

In the final Mix, there are only levels to be controlled. At times, I may use clip Eq or slight compression on a clip, just a thin layer, if I need it on Dialogues or Music to make it stand out better in the mix. 

Tell us about the different styles of working of different directors. How involved are they in the mix? 

Every Director has a different approach towards the Mix. There are some Directors, who prefer to keep the sound track more realistic. For example, in a film I mixed recently, the Director wanted the background score kept to a minimum, and wanted me to play with the Dialogues and Sound Effects and Ambience. 

But a lot of commercial Directors are completely into Music. They don't want Effects, and they tell me to just fill it up with Music. At times, I do try to reason it out that lets use those elements which better communicate your story, be it Music or Effects. And take the film forward. If we use too much BG score, then eventually, the score will lose its impact. 

And there are some who want a nice balance between them. Some are brave enough to experiment, and they tell me, let's mute the Music here and see if the scene works without it. And at times, it works beautifully. Sometimes, the scene can be more powerful, just with the way the actors have performed, and may not require any score to underline the performance. You don't need music in every scene. 

If a movie is very heavy on VFX, does it affect your Mix time? Does VFX slow down a mix process?

Yes, it does, big time. The first reason is that VFX shots are invariably never delivered on time. The VFX team is always under pressure to finish its work and it is not an easy task for them. Sometimes, the shot is delivered and then the Director wants a change in the shot. Even a small change in the VFX could be multiple layers of changes for them. 

So quite often, we are working with temporary VFX shots. And sometimes, we are doing a final Mix of the film using these temp VFX shots. And very often, when the final VFX does come in, the sound goes out of sync. It should not happen but it does happen. The temp VFX shot and the final VFX shot may be of the same length, but the timing of certain actions may have slightly changed in the final VFX shot, which means any effects synced to the temp track are now out of sync. 

So for a VFX heavy film, it's quite normal for the final VFX shots to be delivered after the film is already mixed. So I never give the final delivery of the mixed sound till I have the final VFX. I insist on checking my mix against the final VFX shots to ensure that my Dialogues and Effects are in sync. And if there is a sync problem, then we open the mix sessions and make the necessary corrections and only then will I output the master stems for the DCP. 

Is it normal for edit changes to happen even after the mix?  

Yes, quite often. 

What usually happens is that once the final Mix is done, the Director and Producer will watch the film in its complete length, from start to finish, with songs and BG music and final VFX in its entirety. Prior to this stage, they have always been watching it Reel wise. And now, they may realise that some things are not working. So they may go back to the edit room and tweak a scene, or delete some scenes, or rearrange the order of scenes. Even a small trim of two-two frames in a scene to make a scene work, means that all my dialogues, effects and background score has gone out of sync. So we have to open the sessions and rework on those edit points. But if it is for the betterment of the film, then it has to be done, there are no two ways about it. 

What is the ratio of films mixed in Dolby 5.1, Dolby 7.1 and Dolby Atmos? What are the most popular film mix formats? 

Nowadays, with the Dolby Atmos render, we give all the outputs. So every DCP has a 5.1 encoded, a 7.1 encoded and a Dolby Atmos encoded. 

If a producer does not opt for a Dolby Atmos mix, then we do a 7.1 mix, which can be easily down-mixed to a 5.1 mix. 

We also give a Stereo mix, which can be used for reference screenings. 

How are Hollywood film mixes different from Masala Bollywood film mixes? 

Technically, I don't think there is any difference. It is just the creative use of elements. Which is completely the Director's way of conceptualising and executing it. Though, I suppose they do have the luxury of much more time to finish a Mix. And they do use multiple engineers for the Mix, like one engineer who does the Mix of the background score, one engineer does the dialogue/ADR Mix and one engineer will do the final Mix. 

The final Mix is done by the Chief Mix engineer, but he would have a team which handles individual Mix groups. 

Here, the Directors are still not open to that way of working. 

Do you think your film mix studio is at par with studios in Hollywood? 

Yes. Absolutely. As far as the hardware goes, we are completely up to date and at par with any international film mix studio. We have the top of the range control surface. We are running the latest version of ProTools, and all our plugin’s are also uptodate. There is a regular maintenance of all our speakers and amplifiers.

Which film has been your most challenging film mix? 

Every film that I have mixed, no matter how big or small, I take it up as a challenge. Every film is always a different film for me. But yes, the action heavy films are always more challenging, more difficult to approach and execute. PATHAAN was one such film.

The Director's requirement was to keep the film loud, or should I say larger than life. But I had to always keep in mind that I don't want the audience to get tired, fatigued. Which would have worked on the film negatively. I always prefer that when the audience walks out of the theatre, they are still feeling fresh. They should not come out, feeling that their ears were blasted inside the theatre. 

On the first day of PATHAAN’s release, a few theatre’s called up saying that the audience cannot hear the dialogues. And we asked them, at what level are you playing the track? And they said 4.5 or 5. Whereas the Dolby standards are that playback should be at 7. I can understand that they never want to playback at 7 to safeguard their amps and speakers, from any sudden surge in levels. I told them that you can very safely play the film at 6 and nothing will happen to your speakers. They did have apprehensions, but they did play it at 6. Bhaskar (from Dolby) called me because he was attending a screening at one of the theatre’s and asked me, at what levels are they playing the track, and I said, I suppose it is being played at 6. He said it sounded very good. This compliment coming from a Dolby engineer and a friend, who is absolutely blunt at commenting, was quite satisfying. I also got quite a few compliments from fellow mix engineers in Canada and USA , saying that the soundtrack of PATHAN is sounding very good.  

How much time do you need to mix a film? For example, PATHAAN. How many days did you spend on the Mix of PATHAAN.

A film like PATHAAN had multiple layers of Mix happening. But generally, on a big film, we need about 45 days to Mix. So depending on the scale of the movie, I would say, we need about 30 to 45 days to Mix a film. And we keep a buffer of about a week to 10 days between two film projects, so that we are not creatively restricted. Though, most of the films do come with a deadline of a release date. So if we are running short of time, then we move into night shifts and Sundays too at times. 

If you had a chance to upgrade your studio, what would be on your wishlist? 

We are completely upgraded and uptodate.

There are some film mix studios which are far from ideal in terms of the cubic volume of the studio - L W H of the mix studio is nowhere near a theatre space. Is that normal now all over the world or is it just in India that we make such compromises? 

They are being practical and cost effective. Not everybody has the luxury of having such a big mix room. 

There are studios which are quite small and one can feel the difference in an auditorium. A trained ear can tell that this film has been mixed in a small room. The way a sound track has opened up, the placement of the musical instruments, the processing used in dialogue… from all of this, one can make out as to how big or small a mix room has been used. But you can get a decent mix even in a small size room. 

Do you make it a point to listen to your mix in a commercial theatre after a film has been released? 

Not anymore. There are a lot of time constraints so I can't go to check all my film Mixes, but if there is a specific need to check out something, then yes, I do go to a commercial theatre to review it. 

How has your work changed from mixing in 7.1 to now mixing in Dolby Atmos?

Most of the tracking work is almost identical as compared to a normal 5.1 or 7.1 mix. 

The biggest difference is in handling of the effects tracks, specially in action oriented films. Big budget action oriented films are generally very heavy on effects, and they have roughly a minimum of 500 tracks. So practically it is not possible for me to pan each and every track during the Mix. So the Sound Designer will do most of the panning of Effects in his Atmos tracking room. He will also create sessions where the guns are separate, all the foleys are separate, all the ambiences are separate, and he will identify the Atmos objects which need precise panning, and keep them separate. So that it becomes easier for us to check them and work on them in more detail, if required. About 70 to 80% comes out fine, and then we fine tune the rest of the tracks, as per what needs to be done. For example, we may need to bring some Atmos objects into the room, or move them more into the overheads…all depending on the action on the screen. 

What advice do you have for young sound engineers, who want to take up film mixing? 

The young engineers who are coming out of technical Institutes, like FTII, SRFTI, Whistling Woods, SAE, Chetna Institute etc. are all very well trained and up to date on current technology. They just have to be open minded and keep learning. In spite of me being a Film Re-recording engineer for the past 18 years, I still can't say that I know everything. Every day is a learning experience for me. My associates are constantly coming up with new things and I learn from them. All of this helps me to think creatively, think out of the box, something new, something different. And there is no harm in trying out something new. It may not work, but I always try out new things. So my advice is, give it a try. Don't have regrets later, that I could have done this, or I could have done that. There is no point in repenting later. So keep learning!

Anything else you’d like to talk about?

Let's have a nice cup of coffee!!

 

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E-mail: cheerag.cama@gmail.com
Twitter: @cheragc
Blog: www.thesoundblog.in
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